Colloquial Cantonese: 呢 vs. 這

Source: http://www.omniglot.com/chinese/cantonese.htm

Since I’m so inspired by Colloquial Cantonese vs Mandarin phrases, I’ll try to review each one from the Omniglot Cantonese list until we finish the list. This will be fun! My Mandarin skills are not that good so I want to apologize if my Mandarin examples are not realistic.

Note: When formally writing in Cantonese, the Mandarin version is used instead. Colloquial Cantonese is only used in speech or when quoting speech. Therefore, I will designate:

(M) = Mandarin

(CS) = Cantonese Speech

(CW) = Cantonese Writing

This week’s list is: 呢 vs. 這

Colloquial Jyutping Cantonese		Standard Written Chinese		English
呢	ni1 ne1	這	zhè	this

I’m surprised to see the Chinese word meaning “this” by itself. Usually, even in English writing, it is generally bad form to write the word, “this,” without indicating what the speaker is referring to afterwards.

“This chair…”

“This bottle of water…”

There’s always creative ways to indicate the subject, but eventually, the reader needs to know what is being referenced. Of course, when we speak or when we want to be general, we’d just say “this” or “that” by itself with the meaning usually implied to the listener through surrounding words or by our actions.

*Claps hands* “This is great!”

But, what is great? Generally, there is a clue somewhere in the person’s previous or future sentences or actions.

In Chinese, however, the absence of a reference is painfully obvious. Even in speech, it would sound so awkward without a reference. Using the almost equivalent meaning of the sentence above, but in Chinese instead, the phrase would sound better to omit the entire “this” word instead of adding words without a proper reference:

 [這个…]真的很好!

[zhè ge4…]  zhen1 de hen3 hao3! (Mandarin - literally means “really very good!”)

[呢個…] 真係好啊!

[ni1 go3…] zan1 hai6 hou2 aa1 (Colloquial Cantonese - - literally means “really is good!”))

The above phrases in bold could mean “so great!” or “really great!” “truly great” or “awesome!”  Notice how the Mandarin sentence is different from the Cantonese sentence because the way the message is naturally delivered is different. It would be awkward to use the sentence in the other language unless the speaker is trying to prove a point. Otherwise, if I heard a Cantonese speaker say, “真的很好!” to me, I would think he or she is reading some text outloud instead of actually speaking. Or it could be that the speaker is purposely joking around with me using “proper” language since we have a close enough relationship. I don’t know for sure how “真係好啊!” would sound to a Mandarin speaker, but they would definitely think it’s weird.

Did you notice that in the silent brackets above, I added a “classifier” 个or 個after 這or 呢? That is almost always mandatory.

Nobody would say: “這真的很好!” or  “呢真係好啊!”

I would call these sentences “incomplete” and they do not exist in everyday language. Native speakers yearn for a classifier to go with the word. (This piece of paper. This pair of chopsticks. This slice of pizza.)

“這个真的很好!”or“呢個真係好啊!” 
Now, in this case, we have a classifier to indicate the possibilities of the subject. At least we now have a clue about the subject, but since the speaker used the most general classifier, 个 or  個, it’s still anybody’s guess. The above sentence is still a better sentence than the previous one, but it is still not that specific and might be confusing.

Sometimes, the speaker wants to be vague on purpose and perhaps the listener already knows what the subject is from previous or later sentences or actions. In that case, there’s no explanation needed. If not,  it’s still better to stick to the “真的很好!”or “真係好啊!”part since it is still considered more easier to listen to with the subject implied. Then we expect a curious listener to come up to the speaker and ask, (M) 什么? shen2 me5? (CS) 乜嘢呀?  mat1 je5 aa3? (CW) 甚麼? sam6 mo1? That question, of course, is “what?”

什么真的很好?                                乜嘢咁好呀?

Note: 咁gam3, which is (CS) for “so.”

In order to make ourselves clear, we can give all the information that’s needed in one sentence:

This + classifier + subject (or object depending on the case)

Now, if you haven’t learned classifiers yet, there are so many ways to identify the subject or object. In English, we sometimes use classifiers such as “a set of” or “a sheet of,” but the only difference is that it is not mandatory in English.  I can say “these chopsticks” or “this paper.” Saying, “a book” instead of “a bounded book” is okay in English without sacrificing the meaning.  In the Chinese language, the listener would still be waiting for the classifier if it is absent or else the listener would be confused.

 In the Chinese language, there are so many classifier words, which would sound weird if it was left out of a sentence. Some people use the alternative term “measurement words” even though some classifiers do not actually measure anything.

Here’s a great website which lists Chinese classifiers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_classifiers

Perhaps, I might write up some posts explaining classifiers in the future.

Lastly, let’s take my trusted friend, Rilakkuma to give us an example of what we learned so far: (M) = Mandarin (CS)= Cantonese Speech

Rilakkuma /松弛熊 song1 chi2 xiong2 (M)

Rilakkuma /鬆弛熊 sung1 ci4 hung4 (C)

Rilakkuma is named after the Japanese stuffed animal which literally means “relax” + “bear”

這只熊真的很好! 松弛熊真的很好!

呢隻熊真係好啊! 鬆弛熊真係好啊!

When in doubt about which classifiers to use, try to use 個 (go3 in Cantonese) or 个 (ge4 in Mandarin). They are the most generic classifiers. In my example, I used the classifier for animals: 只 (zhi1 in Mandarin) or 隻 zek3 (in Cantonese)

Advanced Question: Why did I not use the English word, “is” or 是? (M) shi4 (C) si6

“This bear is really great!”

這只熊是真的很好!

呢隻熊係真係好啊!

Short Answer: 是 is generally omitted when used with adjectives. In our case, we’re talking about the degree of greatness (adverb, verb).

I’ll probably explain more about the use of 是 in a future post since I did extensive research on this topic for this post.

My Chinese isn’t that great (不太好) so feel free to correct me.

不太好= bu4 tai4 hao3 (M) bat1 taai3 hou2 (CW – Cantonese Writing)